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Space

An Interstellar Meteor May Have Hit Earth (cnn.com) 65

Two Harvard researchers believe a small meteor that struck earth in 2014 was from another solar system, saying it's "like getting a message in a bottle from a distant location." CNN reports: Dr. Abraham Loeb, the chair of the Department of Astronomy at Harvard University, and his co-author Amir Siraj, studied the velocity of objects entering the Earth's atmosphere, which can be used to predict whether the object was traveling in relation to our sun's orbit... Of the three fastest objects on record, the fastest was clearly bound to our sun. The third-fastest couldn't be clearly categorized. But the second-fastest, Loeb says, bore all the hallmarks of being literally out of this solar system. "At this speed, it takes tens of thousands of years for a object to move from one star to another," he says. Since they don't know exactly where it originated, they can't say exactly how old it is, but it could be downright ancient. "To cross the galaxy it would take hundreds of millions of years."

Of all of the possibilities wrapped up in this relatively small object, perhaps the most exciting is the idea that, theoretically, interstellar objects could carry life from other solar systems. "Most importantly, there is a possibility that life could be transferred between stars," Loeb says. "In principle, life could survive in the core of a rock. Either bacteria, or tardigrades (a microscopic, water-dwelling animal); they can survive harsh conditions in space and arrive right to us..." [A]lthough the object detailed in this paper is the first recorded interstellar meteor to hit Earth, the study estimates such objects enter earth's atmosphere every ten years or so, which means there could be a million different interstellar objects floating around our solar system, just waiting to be examined.

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An Interstellar Meteor May Have Hit Earth

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  • by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @03:50PM (#58464588)

    This is really interesting but I don't see the support for the idea that a bacterium would survive on a rock that a) was violently ejected to escape velocity of some other solar system's living ecosystem, b) further survived for hundreds of millions of years in a dormant state regardless of interstellar radiation, and c) further survived the high-temperature atmospheric entry of our planet and then d) endure the highly-kinetic impact at the end of it all.

    Aside from that I have to wonder what the odd are of an individual rock traveling all that way and hitting Earth.

    • The Universe is a big place, so it may be possible that this has happened once or twice. But Panspermia [wikipedia.org] is the hypothesis that these transfers have happened repeatedly and regularly, spreading life across the galaxy, which seems wildly improbable.

      It is far more likely that life can spread between planets and moons within a single solar system. Martian and lunar rocks have been found on earth [wikipedia.org], and it is likely that terrestrial rocks have made the reverse journey.

    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Actually it is only B that seems unlikely, though at close to 0K, they might last quite a while.
      Pretty sure bacterial spores can take a lot of g forces, so if in the middle of a rock, likely to survive ejection and the high kinetic landing and meteorites don't get hot inside when entering the atmosphere, just the surface, which ablates.
      There are quite a few bacteria etc that live within rock, including rock miles deep in the Earth.

    • None of which are claims that Loeb makes.

      He has demonstrated an interest in "panspermia" in the past, but not as if its actually an important idea in Origins Of Life research [springer.com]. Yes, he does get funding from an organisation working towards performing panspermia, but that is a very different thing than it occurring accidentally and naturally.

      Getting a handle on the umber of rocks (of various sizes) flying through interstellar space, is a component in the probability of panspermia, but there are enough other

  • by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:16PM (#58464648) Journal

    ...what would the smartest way to take over a planets resources be, other than, you know...the militant perception most of our powers that be would think of?

    Sending in a robot army is costly, and risks tons of resources.
    Sending in live forces, would be even more costly.

    Now, if you study a planet with life, such as earth, for a very long time, learning whatever you could of it, knowing its strengths and its weaknesses - and if you don't need "human kind", what would you do, to take all of those resources, scot-free with as little effort as possible?

    I think Hawking was onto something when he said, if they ever would visit us, and if they had technology superior to ours (which would be obvious since we didn't have the technology to visit them first), they do not have friendly intentions, they are in need of resources.

    So - again - what would be the smartest way to go about this?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:26PM (#58464676)

      or they might just be looking for some easy anal

    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Humanity has only been around for a short time in geological terms or interstellar travel at meteorite speeds,so unless coming from a really close stellar system, they would have no way to know that humanity is going to exist.
      There's lots of resources in space, just the amount around Saturn for example dwarfs what is easily available on the Earth.
      By the time that we achieve interstellar travel, we won't need a planet at the destination, just asteroids or such.

      • A message from an extra terrestrial source. Who would not receive it. And study it.

        And it would probably contain a program. So carefully run it on a computer not connected to the internet. What could possibly go wrong.

        This was considered long ago (pre internet). Google A for Andromeda.

      • There's lots of resources in space, just the amount around Saturn for example dwarfs what is easily available on the Earth.

        The mass of the Saturnian ring system is approximately 1.54*10^19 kg, comprising about 99.9% water ice. The mass of the Earth's oceans are approximately 1.35*10^21 kg at 96.5% water.

        This is a strange use of the verb "dwarf".

        By the time that we achieve interstellar travel, we won't need a planet at the destination, just asteroids or such.

        This is pretty much certain for interstellar tra

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          You left out all the satellites of Saturn.

          • You need to add up Mimas, Enceladus, Tethys and Dione to get to the mass of the Earth's oceans. Iapetus and Rhea take you to 4* the mass of Earth's oceans. Titan is the big one (nearly 2 lunar masses), but Titan is at the bottom of a hole about as deep as the Moon's gravity hole - you'd be much better off mining asteroids.

            I'm sure Asimov was well aware of this when he was sending Lucky Whathisname barrelling around among the ice miners of Saturn's rings, but he was writing fiction. It'll be a very long tim

            • by dryeo ( 100693 )

              There are other resources besides water, though I just used Saturn as an example as there are a lot of objects in a relatively small volume. Asteroids are more spread out, which might be a problem if you need resources from multiple asteroids such as a nickel/iron one and one with lots of volatiles.
              Never read any of Asimov's Lucky series.

              • Asteroids are more spread out, but the travel time between them is a different thing. If your typical asteroid (NB, we don't have a census yet) target is 1km in diameter, you spend your time chewing that much before accelerating to your next target. With the typical particle size in Saturn's rings being a few metres, you'll be boosting and decelerating far more frequently. Which costs energy and reaction mass.

                Basically, you have to do an optimisation calculation for what size of body is most economical to

    • What use is getting resources from another planet, anywhere? They'd still cost far more to get to your home planet than actually finding the same things on that planet.

      See that burning wreckage over there? It's every SF plot line, ever, when confronted with the real physics of the universe.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Why? While over interstellar distances, it seems unlikely, over planetary distances, it seems plausible.
      Once we have a good look at Mars etc, we'll have a better idea of if it is possible. Is there life on Mars and is it the same as Earth life should answer the question.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          If life existed on Mars, it probably still does, most likely underground as you point out. Even more interesting is Venus, where life might still exist in the upper atmosphere.
          Unluckily we have too little data on how easily life starts to say whether arriving on a meteor is more likely then starting on its own.
          If it does start easily, life on different planets will likely have differences, different proteins for example, which will make it obvious that it started there. If it's all the same, then likely it

      • While over interstellar distances, it seems unlikely, over planetary distances, it seems plausible.

        Interplanetary panspermia is less unlikely than interstellar panspermia (or even intergalactic panspermia - people have proposed it, semi-seriously), but that doesn't make it easy.

        IF there life on Mars and if it is the same as Earth life should answer the question.

        That might answer the question of whether panspermia is possible, but is very unlikely to answer the questions of which way the travel went, if both

  • It's aliens shooting at us! But since they're using rocks or some other simple projectiles, they're obviously not very advanced so no need to worry.

    Either that, or their doomsday device failed to detonate in which case we lucked out - for a while...

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Or maybe Klendathu is just sending a ranging shot just before firing for effect.

      I would suggest avoiding Buenos Aires for awhile.

  • Take a left turn at Albuquerque next time.
  • by flug ( 589009 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @04:52PM (#58464762)

    Most interesting insight is this from the abstract [arxiv.org]: "This discovery enables a new method for studying the composition of interstellar objects, based on spectroscopy of their gaseous debris as they burn up in the Earth's atmosphere."

    • Given very rapid identification of the objects amongst a background of prosaic meteorites. Which is quite an engineering, IT, and analytical challenge.
  • by az-saguaro ( 1231754 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @07:03PM (#58465116)

    If you read the article, the compelling science is that (1) they could measure velocities and infer an trajectory which leads to the extra-solar origin, and (2) they can use vaporization spectroscopy to look at the object's chemistry. Now, how they get from good science to sublime idiocy is beyond my comprehension, to wit " Loeb [the Harvard astronomer] says "In principle, life could survive in the core of a rock. Either bacteria, or tardigrades (a microscopic, water-dwelling animal); they can survive harsh conditions in space and arrive right to us..." "

    Every time there is some science fad or infatuation with something that has hit the popular media, everyone wants to explain everything in that light. Tardigrades travel on interstellar space rocks and thereby populate foreign solar systems. Really !? WTF. Sounds like Professor Loeb needs to stick to the experimental rather than the theoretical side of the aisle.

    Another comment here stated "Can we stop with the idiotic panspermia ideas? It's completely stupid." That is probably true. Organic molecules are common. The possibility that chemistry, then biochemistry, and even the most primordial life could travel on meteorites over vast distances and maintain their active chemical potentials is plausible enough, even to the point that certain RNA's or DNA's or even bacteria like organisms could have made the journey safely. But those evolutionary systems are presumably common, it is after all just chemistry, so if it happened over there, then it happened right here, no need to invoke flying microbes to explain the origin of life here. Also, life is a bootstrap process. Put even the simplest bacterium or green algae into a sterile world, and nothing will happen, because the infrastructure chemistry, enzymes, and energy coupling reactions are not there. To get the right soup to allow even the simplest microbe the opportunity to respire, move, acquire substrate and energy, and reproduce, took 2 billion years to develop on this planet.

    But rock riding higher taxa - no. Complex life on this planet is presumed to have developed because of numerous planetary happenstances, including things like tidal and orbital stability from the moon and biochemical evolution of an appropriate atmosphere. By the time any of that could have happened, our solar system was a fairly settled place, the chances of a huge collision already profoundly diminished as the early bodies had all been gravitationally amalgamated or already ejected. To get the escape velocity needed to send a rock to another star would require huge impact energies that even the Chixilub event probably did not have - although anybody knowing the numbers please chime in. Not that such impacts could not happen, they could, but so much less likely by the time that higher multicellular taxa had had a chance to evolve.

    Tardigrades appear in the fossil record about 530 million years ago - they are just kids. Research that has taken tardigrades to space and exposed them to desiccation and radiation show that hey can survive amazing conditions, but only so long. A ten day experiment is not the same as a 100,000 year meteorite ride. And those little buggers did not do well in space exposed to radiation, so 100K years in cosmic ray environment is not tenable. So, the good professor is implying that some higher order creepy crawly got entombed in a rock big enough to shield it, in a collision of astronomically small likelihood, then spent eons floating in cosmic space, to land here and establish a new phylum on this planet. One can never say "never", but it taxes credulity.

    It would be a more respectable position if it was not one of those chi chi "science of the moment" fads. When the kids of South Park recently used dancing tardigrades for a science project, it was funny. When Star Trek Discovery used a giant grizzly tardigrade as a mushroom munching hyper light speed atomic fart pile to propel the space craft, it was downright moronic. But they all used tardigrades because TG's a

    • Now, how they get from good science to sublime idiocy is beyond my comprehension, to wit

      That would probably explain why Loeb flapped this idea to some ignorable news channel instead of writing it into the paper. The paper is what counts. Which is why Iwrote about the paper [slashdot.org] 4 days ago, but Slashdot didn't pick up on it until it appeared on the telly.

      The spectrometry is a proposal for future work, not a thing we can do today. The spectroscopy we can do ; the identification of the possible origin of the mete

  • Tardigrades can survive for over 100 years dessicated on earth. But travelling 100 million years through the vacuum of space? That is a far-fetched panspermia scenario.
  • The god***n bugs whacked us, Johnny!
  • Maybe it's a viral ad campaign by DC comics.
    "The object landed in a cornfield in Iowa, and was discovered by a childless elderly couple..."

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